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Corporate property review frequently asked questions

Here are some of the questions we’ve had from employees, and our responses. We will add to this list over the coming months. If you’ve got a question that hasn't been answered here please send it to and we will do our best to answer it.

What is TUPE?

The Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006, as updated by various statutes and regulations, cover the transfer of employees from one business to another. TUPE protects employees by entitling them to the same terms and conditions, with continuity of employment, as they had before the transfer. Terms and conditions must not be varied by the outgoing or incoming employer if the only or principal reason for the variation is the transfer itself.

At what stage will employees be consulted?

When we have more specific proposals these will be discussed with Cabinet. Once they are agreed by Cabinet then we will move to formal consultations with the employees affected.

Will employees long service be retained?

Yes, the length of service with Derbyshire County Council will transfer with the employee to Concertus Derbyshire Limited (CDL) and continue year on year.

Will flexi-time continue after transfer?

Yes. The TUPE regulations protect terms and conditions. There is a request that all flexi-time built up with the council is taken ahead of the point of transfer, then you can start to build that time up again when you start work with CDL.

Is there a limit to the amount you can build up, currently 15 hours (2 days) with the council?

This will be the same as it is now so you can carry forward 15 hours.

Does annual leave need to be used up pro rata?

No. The request is that flexi-time and TOIL is used ahead of the transfer, but there is no requirement to take a pro rata amount of annual leave. The council and CDL will be seeking to understand your annual leave position, both taken and planned in order to have an accurate record at the point of transfer and for CDL to be able to plan workload during staff periods of leave.

After transfer will the staff be solely working on projects based in Derbyshire?

The team will be primarily working on projects for Derbyshire County Council. CDL have successfully developed relationships with other public procuring bodies in Derbyshire which will create opportunities for the resource and skill set to support the delivery of these projects. In addition, there are positive conversations being developed across the East Midlands which will provide further opportunities for the resource and skill set within the team. Also, pending the capacity of resource versus the order book there may be occasions where the local team supports wider operations within the Concertus Group. 

Will roles and responsibilities be the same for staff who transfer?

There is a piece of work being carried with the council to understand exactly the roles and responsibilities of those transferring and the requirements of the council. In consideration of this, CDL is developing a new structure which includes the proposed transferees and any new roles that are required to ensure that all the council’s requirements continue to be met.

What will be the utilisation of the internal construction service?

That is not part of the transfer discussions and is a separate issue being progressed directly by the council.

Staff have access to different data systems, e.g. Derbyshire Data, shared drives, Asset Management and EDRM. What is being done regarding access?

We have formed a working group with CDL to resolve the practicalities of data sharing. This working group will explore and resolve access to our data, asset management information, EDRM and other systems prior to the projects team being transferred.

Will there still be access to Derbyshire County Council systems such as Asset Manager and EDRM?

CDL is currently in ongoing discussions via a working group to configure a plan to enable the sharing of asset data with the council, including understanding accountability in sharing the information.

What is the plan for the Construction (Design and Management) Regulations (CDM) function?

This is to be transferred to the joint venture and then the service will be provided to the council as a professional service. A working group has been created to determine the roles and responsibilities of the council in the new proposal.

Who is going to be there for Disabled Facilities Grants (DFG) CDM work?

This is being looked at as part of the CDM working group.

How does the proposed timescale fit with the notice period?

It depends on your personal circumstances with what your contract states and also once the date for transfer is confirmed. CDL would welcome 1-to-1 conversation with individuals to secure an outcome that suits both parties.

Will there be any opportunities for voluntary redundancy, or voluntary early retirement, or redundancy payments?

The changes in corporate property are about establishing new ways of working for the service. Therefore, there are no plans to offer redundancy or early retirement.

Will there be opportunities for training in the new ventures?

The joint ventures will use a number of new procedures and computer systems and it will be necessary for all staff working in the joint ventures to be trained to use them. In addition both Vertas and Concertus have a positive approach to the development of their staff. The new joint ventures will have the same approach to staff training and development so that they can deliver better services to their customers.

Will there be opportunities for training in the joint ventures?

The joint ventures will use a number of new procedures and computer systems and it will be necessary for all staff working in the joint ventures to be trained to use them. In addition, both Veritas and Concertus have a positive approach to the development of their staff. The joint ventures will have the same approach to staff training and development so that they can deliver better services to their customers.

What are the projected profits and losses for the next 5 years?

The joint venture has a business plan that is approved by the board of directors, and the business projections are very positive. The financial position of the joint venture is for the council and Concertus as shareholders.

Why are staff leaving CDL?

Everyone has their own reasons for changing roles, but there will always be turnover of staff. CDL conducts exit interviews to understand people’s reasons for leaving which have included employees retiring and career progression.

Why has a second company called Concertus Derbyshire Trading Limited been created?

The new company was established to enable the council to continue to comply with the Teckal exemption regulations. The regulations require 80% of business to be undertaken for the shareholders. As the intention is for CDL to undertake work for new clients, a new company is required to enable this to happen. The ownership structure of the new company is the same as CDL.

If staff transfer to CDL, which of these 2 companies do they transfer to?

They will transfer to Concertus Derbyshire Limited.

Why has Andrew Rowe resigned from both CDL companies as of the 1 July?

Andrew was instrumental in initially forming the joint venture. As CDL has now moved into a more operational focus, Matthew Self who is Group Operations Director within Concertus will take Andrew’s place on the Board. Andrew remains CEO of Concertus Group.

How many more staff will be thrown at CDL until it’s agreed that this experiment is failing?

It is not agreed that the joint venture is failing. CDL has been established to provide an improved property design service to the council, to secure new business from third party customers, therefore safeguarding and increasing employment within Derbyshire.

What part of the projects team was failing in order for the need for the externalisation?

The transfer of project and programme management is to improve services to the council, remove duplication of activity, improve responsiveness to customers, and to allow CDL to adopt industry best practice, for example BIM level 2. 

Will working from home still be supported?

There will be no changes up until the transfer date, so you will continue to work from home. After this date a blended approach will be implemented by CDL to have staff working from the Chatsworth Hall complex for some of the time and working from home for the remainder.

Are there any plans for relocation of the CDL office?

There are no plans to relocate the CDL office.

Can copies of the presentations be provided?

Yes, these are attached to meeting invites.

When will the Cabinet paper be submitted and what is the proposed transfer date?

At this moment it is not possible to advise when the Cabinet paper will be submitted or what the proposed transfer date will be. This is because we and CDL are taking time to get the details right around what the new processes and procedures will look like to deliver the changes required.

Will the Cabinet paper be available to staff and Trade Unions and who will write it?

It is proposed to take 2 Cabinet reports to the same meeting. One will be in the public part of the agenda and the other in the exempt part of the agenda. The second report will include any information that is confidential. Reports are published and available about a week before the meeting date. Stuart Knight will produce the draft report, which is then added to by officers in HR, Finance and Legal. Dave Massingham is ultimately responsible for the reports.

If I am unable to attend the formal consultation meeting, is there anything I have to do?

It is optional to attend the formal consultation, but we want to share the information with all those in scope and offer you the opportunity to comment. HR will contact you if you decide or are unable to attend.

What does the term 'measures' mean?

Consultation must cover any changes to working practices (‘measures’) that the new employer is planning to make as part of the TUPE transfer. For example, measures include many things such as different pension arrangements, change in location of work, annual leave, banked hours, changes to pay dates and changes to working patterns. Colleagues already eligible to join the Local Government Pension Scheme will continue to be eligible after the transfer.

At what point will we receive a job description for new roles?

A job description for the role within CDL would be provided prior to transfer.

Are you clear as to who isn’t in scope?

The Cabinet paper will be clear about who is and isn't in scope. After the Cabinet paper is approved the people in scope will receive measures and consultation will only be with those in scope. However, we also explain to those not in scope what their role will be within the Council.

What will staff be consulted on?

All rights you currently have and why TUPE applies.

Who will do the commissioning in the proposed way of working?

The Asset Management property business partners will be responsible for commissioning. This is to ensure that work undertaken by CDL aligns with our Asset Management Strategy and the individual departments' service asset management plans. The Governance, Compliance and Performance team are responsible for monitoring the performance of all contractors to check what the contractor is doing and what needs to be done.

Have fees gone up?

Reports are taken to Cabinet each year to set fees, some fees have gone up and others have gone down. The fee rates reflect varies issues including, the type of project, the disciplines required and the pipeline of work.

Are CDL governed by same regulations and bureaucracies that we are?

We are a local authority and CDL is a private limited company. We each have separate laws, regulations and bureaucracies to comply with. 

Is there a plan for CDL to have their own procurement team?

It is proposed that CDL become more responsible for the procurement of construction projects, this being consistent with the government procurement policy guidance.

In terms of job security, are there any risks to those staff who move and then their function moves to Ipswich?

CDL has no plans to transfer this function to Ipswich. The design and property professional services will be delivered in Derbyshire.